I feel motivated to try harder and do better. It is time to live in faith not fear. Thank you Kim. That actually seems more admirable to me - that Jesus himself "became" who he was through 1000's of lifetimes of progression and trial and error, just like the rest of us. Cheryl. The passage I was given is found in D&C 76 which also happens to be about the Mysteries of Godliness: D&C 76:41-44 I must continually ask myself the question, Who am I to believe that Gods work is dependent on my understanding, teaching and attempting to enlighten the unenlightened? I must also daily keep in mind my own nothingness and utter reliance on The Savior of The World (2 Nephi 4). Or as Moroni declared, By the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things (Moroni 10:5). This could easily explain what Joseph Smith was inferring when he said the following Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Laman and Lemuel Were a Religious Product of their Day, The Right to Expression in the Kingdom of God, Light & Law #1 Two Laws For Every Kingdom, Women, Priesthood, and the Awful Monster of Traditional Belief, The Outer Vessel of King Noah and His Priests. In the 1840s their polygamous relationship to the Mormon prophet was as secret as his conversion to reincarnation. Thats kind of you to say. Thats a great question, Diane, and an important thing to define. visionary, who can discern spirits, or who possess extraordinary compassion, Even though we were sealed in the temple, it is only upon the condition of righteousness of the individual that the sealing will be valid. He, Only He. I saw my Father work out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom I shall present it to my Father, so that he obtains kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt his glory, so that Jesus treads in his tracks to inherit what God did before; it is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the gospel, about which so much hath been said. Thank you for putting our thoughts into words of deeper understanding. . 2.3M+ acres, 1 in every ~550 acres of private land. to be better than others or have suggested that even if it were a true against the adversary with greater fervor. I'm not convinced that we know the basis for this train of thought (which of course not all the brethren agreed with) However it's certainly very plausible that it's from these events that Brigham developed his theology - possibly due to ambiguity in the original events. consider to be a blessed gift from God. Elena, thank you for sharing your experience. What happened was that I would hear a name in my mind and immediately a person on the other side of the girl would introduce themselves and then they would thank me for helping them in their trialed, this was not for 1 probationary earth but many. This implications started with JS' apparent teaching that God the Father was a Christ during his mortal probation. Multiple Mortal Probations (MMP) . As for me, I will do my best to honor the rules of these forums. Behold, great and marvelous are the works of the Lord. Although we probably should distinguish between MMP as a doctrine of reincarnation for the telestial kingdom from MMP as part of Adam God (the idea of a progression from mortal, to Christ, to Father, to falling as Adam, to return to Father). Third, there were a lot of other early LDS, some apostles as well who lived closer in time and proximity to Joseph Smith who believed in "multiple mortal probations." My niece is a Medium, and she mentioned something like this happening when we go to the other side. I'm very pleased and honored to have this opportunity to meet and worship with you on this special occasion. Even if I lived to be 100 years old I am quite certain I will not know everything God knows. For some of us, the knowledge of who we have been in I should clarify that I approach this issue froma historical perspective. . Ill be looking forward to hearing more!!! Even more than that I feel that spirit of truth in my heart that it is true. What, when, and to whom those truths could come was left open-ended. Very well said Victoria! Please know that I am sincere in my question and am not trying to be argumentative or contrary. Hallelujah! The LDS church teaches the Pauline principle of many degrees in heaven. man. And as you mention that we are progressing to good or evil with every new morning the words of the philosopher Heidegger come into my mind. Receive ye, therefore, my law. These ideas make sense and just feel right to me. Pamee, you have a wonderful heart and testimony. Why he went and took a body and went to redeem a world in the flesh and had power to lay down his life and to take it up again.". But in the essay I kept hoping for a more in depth explanation of why and how this could be considered LDS doctrine. 25Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law. I remember when my sister Julie first introduced multiple probations to me, the concept seemed like it could be true. Thank you for sharing this. a personal encounter with Lucifer. Thomas asks if Zulema, Melanie Gibb, Lori were "very active" in the LDS Church. Verlan. A looser neoPlatonism is more defensible both because it actually was in pretty widespread belief but also because we can trace phraseology from actual neoplatonic translations of the early 19th century. version of the doctrine has been aired publicly, I am concerned that too many Thank you for sharing. grudge against anyone who does not believe, or who does not want to know more Promised wives, seed without number, be full partaker with Abraham, Isaac., and Jacob. Well done, Eric. Thanks for sharing. Im so grateful for you, Greg, Matt and Julie for your conviction and witnesses of the Truth! D&C 132 on the other hand was dictated in 1843, prime time for this topic. never considered the possibility of living multiple lives, many are judging the The standard version of the sermon can be easily interpreted in this fashion. were transfigured before him. Another George Laub journal entry on JS' Sermon In the Grove seems to confirm that this is how Laub understood it. LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations. Thank you for bravely sharing it here in this public forum. Just think of the fun rides in life one could take though Ken! As I am learning and beginning to understand more of multiple probations, eternal progression, ascension and condescension, I am seeing a much larger picture in the eternal realm of learning and progression. After Moses had a face to face conversation with God, he had Mormonism today is pretty bland by comparison. Elena, I hope you feel the sincerity of my heart when I say, I hear you! Since I hardly want to finish this round, I definitely don't want to do "multiple mortal probations." This doctrine tastes delicious to me, and I glory in my God for His omniscience and almighty power to bring about our salvation and exultation in wonder and mysterious ways. Perhaps Im misunderstanding. One of the most effective teaching tools for me comes For the uninitiated, Multiple Mortal Probation (MMP) is similar to the concept of reincarnation. Another name who too . Or a more default reading that doesn't inject as much into the text is simply those who live in a telestial way get rewarded with the same. So for example Quinn's claim that the three degrees of glory arises from the three levels (places) of emanation in Plotinus that was in the culture around Joseph requires that Joseph interpret this in very non-Platonic ways. Because we are told this is the time for men to prepare to meet God, Yea behold , I find I am perplexed it seems we are being told in more than this scripture, that THIS TIME is the time from which we attain our eternal status, NOT THROUGH OUR OWN TOTAL EFFORTS, but from our leaning on the atonement of Christ. take it to the Lord and get your own answers. Im glad you feel that way Kendall. For others, it has given meaning and The more I hear the more I learn from you and Julie!!! My only doubt was in me and the ability to live the gospel of Jesus Christ. We will be free to choose to be with those we love, who also want to be with us. kindness from cruelty, and so on. The answers are there if you seek them from the Lord and in His timing. Officially, Mormons are supposed to be almost entirely vegetarian. I just dont see how being promised we can be together forever, and being reborn in another life, and probably sealed to someone else fit together. Here's another one from the New Testament people use to support reincarnation: That information about Brigham and Heber ordaining each other to the Godhead is crazy stuff. Blessings to all seekers. No wonder they were so arrogant. Big Florida development project likely worth $40-80B in 30-60 years. The Widow's Mite presents, an overview of Church land ownership in the USA. Thanks for your courage to share. You can learn more about it here . Mormons Believe that Christ, Heavenly Father, and the Holy Ghost are Separate Beings. My second Temple Marriage was to a man who had spiritual gifts, such as seeing, hearing, and speaking to those beyond the veil. They also vicariously ordained Joseph and Hyrum to do the same. 44 Wherefore, he saves ALL EXCEPT THEMthey shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment. I want to move forward and progress to the next grade. Please consider subscribing in order to receive these updates. What an incredible doctrine of mercy and hope! The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I view these gifts largely to be the result of mortal Now of course the argument of various forms of platonism in early Mormonism typically comes with it the claim that Joseph ismisreading platonism. I believe in this doctrine and am excited to continue to receive further light and knowledge. What this may help to resolve is the issue that so many that have lived on this planet get no inkling of Christ and His gospel, and yet, we are told, faith in Christ and acceptance of his gospel are essential. There is an answer. From the above we can imply that JS believed that all Gods had served as Christs, that all heirs of the Celestial kingdom would serve as Christs as part of their progression from exaltation to exaltation, and that the Holy Ghost would also serve as a Christ. deep questions about the eternities and the knowledge satisfied our questions Who do I end up with ultimately in the celestial kingdom? Let's review multiple scriptures that allow us to see things as they really are: 1) The Plan of Happiness. It takes a while to ponder these things and receive witness, but it does come; then you see thru Heavens lens, and see the beauty of a more complete and merciful Plan of Redemption and Salvation. Then meeting you several years ago in Idaho, i feel our paths have crossed before. I also believe that they want the best of everything for me and that I can become like them. Then one early morning between 3-4am I was told by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ this very Doctrine of Multiple Probations, I was shown much about my Previous Lives and how extensive those lives had been. Why the title and what needs to happen to have that title. Among early Christians and LDS the doctrine of multiple mortal probations was taught. Even Brigham Young said, My traditions were such, he confessed, that when the Vision came first to me, it was directly contrary and opposed to my former education. I don't deny one can read it that way, but the more natural reading is that in his first mortality the Father was Christ. There were many things we did together as a couple and also individually that were in error of the doctrines of God as I have come to understand today. Thank you Eric, Greg and Julie for your Multiple Probations book, essays and podcasts of supporting scripture and history. JS taught many times that Michael stood next to Christ in authority, and he also taught that Elohim was the head of the Gods (i.e. I was once looking at the wickedness of the world and lamenting the fact that so few in this generation appear to be on a path to come to know Christ and therefore lacking what is needed to enter into His kingdom (JST Matt 7:33). They witness to the same insights I have also had on the matter. However, my understanding of this doctrine and how it works creates the opposite reaction. He showed us the way how to ascend. I always look forward to your writings and know you speak truth. This was after a lifetime of belonging to many Christian denominations and the fruits of the plan of salvation were very sweet to me even though i was raised by some in my family to detest the Lds faith and to not believe in Joseph.. as time went on and I progressed in knowledge AND my own spiritual gifts I began to thirst for things I knew must be missing, such as where was the idea of grace? I couldn't find it. I thank you and all of those who are trying to teach about Multiple Probation. Another example comes as I try to understand the meaning of eternal lives. Have We Placed Our Hopes in the Arm of Flesh? And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place [the telestial kingdom where they now live], to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.". The thought of using this I know you and Julie Row are Great tools in the Lords hand in this last days. why I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. Adam Peace, enlightenment, and hope are wonderful gifts. And it is all possible only in and through the merits of our Savior, the Son. So I see first hand the effects of not knowing for myself what is truth vs error. I would comment but feel it is too sacred. idea as crazy or ridiculous. February 28, 2017 in General Discussions. Knowing what the Lord has trusted me Something that has always been there but was never realized by me. I shelved it for sometime until I was lead back to studying it a year later. I do not believe I am alone in these sentiments. I like cats better. How can eternal progression happen in one lifetime on this earth. You had to have been proven, and earned this Title. 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also. That being said I am personally bound by the admonition given in countless times and ways throughout scripture and most clearly in the Doctrine and Covenants 63: 64. I have to be honest. A blog from a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thank you Eric. http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/shirley-maclaine-tells-film-set-stories-line-article-1.2545803. He, Only He. May God continue to inspire you and bless you and your family, you are certainly blessings us! With those multiple witnesses I could no longer question or deny what the Savior hadtold me. We know that there is opposition in all things. Eric, car accident on meadowbrook parkway today. In other words the only people that the Lord doesnt save eventually are those who DO NOT WANT TO BE SAVED. Given that the content of JS' revelations usually coincide with questions and subjects he is interested in at the time, my best guess is that this interpretation of 88 is probably a stretch. I find the idea of multiple probations very interesting and am open to it in a well, why not sort of way. The main topics are the levels, or ladder, of eternal progression and the end times servant otherwise known as the Davidic Servant. are so advanced in their abilities and gifts from birth, such as music, art, So, each new life gives a clean slate, while maintaining our spiritual essence and disposition and propensity for good or evil. the merciful God of second chances I have since come to know and believe in. As is common knowledge, the trio of beings who participate in the creation in the temple are Michael, Jehovah, and Elohim, and these possibly represent JS' conception of the Godhead. You are obviously gifted and inspired by God. The fact there is no scripture or officially declared doctrine stating multiple mortal probations is false is absolutely an evidence in the doctrine's favor. The seriousness, the risk, and the glories of mortal life are undercut the moment one supposes he will have a million or more subsequent probations of the same sort. Some say that they dont believe in do overs. This concept found me. I am not sure how most people have become exposed to this doctrine. And sorry you got excommunicated! I highly recommend Multiple Probations: A Lost Doctrine Remembered by Eric Smith and Greg Christiansen, edited by Julie Rowe. Erika, these are great questions. nature. In my opinion Alma 5 and Alma 12, in their entirety, are both worthy of consideration along side many other scriptures that follow a pattern which is familiar to me. 2:43 p.m. John Thomas is conducting cross . Alaris The very idea of reincarnation which we know to be a false doctrine- tells us that there is its opposite- which would be Multiple Mortal Probations. May you find Him now. [i] Most Christians believe in the binary afterlife of heaven or hell. When I was introduced to this topic of multiple mortal probations several years ago it just made sense. At the north end of the FLDS community is an abandoned man-made cave, which is a bunker-like network of tunnels drilled 100-yards deep . What seems to be missing is the escape clause to such a definitive end. While I do not consider reincarnation to be true, it is clearly an I believe with all my heart in the Ninth Article of Faith that God will yet reveal many great and important truths pertaining to the Kingdom of God. If mortal probations, then individuals get better opportunity. specifics with others. Even Christ talked about this principle to Simon and he also showed with his own example that he was acting under the law of baptism. We are all blessed! mistake in my mind as to who the authors of the two variations are. Michael Quinn documented it as follows: By the time of his death in 1844, Joseph Smith had also reversed his prior rejection of the Cabala's doctrine of "transmigration of the souls." I refer to it as the doctrine of eternal lives which includes the idea of Multiple Mortal Probations. Thanks, as always, this is very well thought out and written. peacefully and sweetly. Especially that your own witness didnt come from a human. we are talking about multiple mortal probations that are all human.] The new day starts at a moment no one can see very much (its a kind of a hope). If it does not come from the Prophet they will not even investigate. 24This is eternal livesto know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I love how this is turning into a string of testimonials. Whatever the case, I am certain that the most important factor about what relationships will look like in the eternities is agency. Having experienced the intense glory of Gods millions of people from around the world are part of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints . Thank you for bringing it out of obscurity. I felt all three reading your post tonight. I love Them with all my heart and desire to serve them forever. Thank you for taking the time to read this and comment! The Mormon scriptures clearly state that meat "should be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.". Having been so moved upon in the process of discovery, my friend Greg and I compiled a book called Multiple Probations which is a compilation of interesting history, supportive scriptures, and informative quotes from early authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. we would not have experience and could not really gain knowledge or wisdom. That was a Wow moment! Some have accused those who believe this doctrine as seeking Not sure if that group is still active anymore. But both Chad and Rowe have taught that people can essentially. It answers many of my questions, How could a god (Lucifer) fall from grace, how could the Savior become who he was in one lifetime, how could I ever make it to the celestial kingdom if my partner wasnt willing to live the gospel. Elder Bruce R. McConkie. Thanks for sharing this interesting history. We know this to be true ! There is a Facebook Group where this doctrine has been presented the true version of it with all the evidence in forms of quotes. So, the basis of this conclusion is baseless. My understanding is that much of the MMP arose out of the infusion of spiritualism in Utah as Saints primarily from England immigrated. Some of them taught such principles rather clearly over the pulpit, where their words have been recorded in the Journal of Discourses (JD). Serve. This was part of a long prayer.